JYOTHI BASU-Brief Life Sketch.
Chronology
· Born on July 8, 1914 in as Jyotirindra Basu into an upper middle-class Bengali family in Calcutta. His father, Nishikanta Basu, was a doctor from the village of Barodi in Dhaka District, East Bengal (now in Bangladesh), while his mother Hemalata Basu was a housewife.
· Educated at St. Xavier's School and College and Presidency College, Calcutta(1935). B.A Honours in English, Bar at Law from Middle Temple, London.
· Initiated to Marxism and Politics while in UK. Came in close association with Harry Pollitt, Rajani Palme Dutt,, Ben Bradley and other leaders of the Communist Party of Great Britain.
· Was a member of the India League, London, a member of the Federation of Indian Students in Great Britain, Secretary of the London Majlis.
· On return to India in 1940, became a member of the Communist Party of India. As a trade-unionist, he was an important functionary of the B.A. Railroad Workers' Union and the All India Railwaymen's Federation. He was also in the leadership of several other trade union organisations.
· Between 1952 and 1957, was Secretary of the West Bengal Provincial Committee of the Communist Party of India.
· Elected to the Bengal Legislative Assembly in 1946.
· After independence, elected to the West Bengal Legislative Assembly in 1952, 1957, 1962, 1967, 1969, 1971, 1977, 1982, 1987, 1991 and 1996.
· Was the leader of the Opposition in the West Bengal Legislative Assembly from 1957 to 1967.
· Was Deputy Chief Minister of the two United Front Governments in West Bengal in 1967 and 1969.
· Took his oath as Chief Minister of West Bengal on 21st June, 1977. Headed the Left Front government in the State for five consecutive terms.
· Relinquished the office of the Chief Minister on November 6, 2000.
· Member of the Central Committee and Special Invitee to the Polit Bureau of the CPI(M) from 19th Party Congress at Coimbatore in 2008.
· On January 1, 2010, Basu was admitted to a Calcutta hospital after feeling unwell. (2010 -01-06)[update]
· Expired on 17.01.10-Sunday at 11.47 hours at AMRI Hospital, Salt lake, Culcutta.
A positive triumphInterview with Jyoti Basu
P.V. SIVAKUMAR ,Front Line.
Seventy-six-year-old Jyoti Basu, veteran Communist Party of India (Marxist) leader, began his fourth unbeaten innings as Chief Minister on June 25, 1991 – setting something of a world record for a Communist party-led government contesting elections in a pluralistic political system. Within six months, he will be independent India’s longest-serving (without a break) Chief Minister belonging to any party.
In any objective assessment, Jyoti Basu symbolises solid political and ideological work over an extended period, fortitude and staying power and also a sharp, contemporary focus on issues that matter. He is clearly a unique kind of leader who commands enormous mass appeal and wide-ranging respect among politicians; he is equally clearly a product of his movement.
The West Bengal Chief Minister, who met the Frontline team – the two economists, Dr. K. Nagarajand Dr. Venkatesh Athreya, N. Ram and photographer K. Gajendran – in his Writers’ Building office on June 26, was an agile politician, who anticipated several of the questions. He was frank and forthright: frank in his assessment of his political opponents and forthright about the issues which matter. While referring to the Left Front’s solid accomplishments, he made it a point to speak about its shortcomings. Jyoti Basu is a man with a sense of accomplishment about him – and a man who has his future tasks clearly visualised and spelt out. Further, the Jyoti Basu we met was a relaxed, friendly, accessible Chief Minister with a sense of humour and a ready chuckle (who has read virtually every one of the published novels of P.G. Wodehouse, for example). “Photo sessions are for film stars, not for politicians,” he joked while consenting to be photographed from various angles for Frontline.
Excerpts from the interview.
The outcome of the tenth general election fought on issues of secularism, stability and just change has been somewhat mixed. However, here in West Bengal, there has been an unambiguous and resounding verdict in favour of the Left Front which has, in the process, made history by winning a fourth consecutive term. How has this come about?
This question is being asked for quite some time. My view is we have been getting in all these elections positive votes. It is not just negative; we have been getting positive votes. That is because people have understood from their experience that we are implementing seriously the programme we set out before them in our election manifesto; and that with the limited powers we have – of which also we make them conscious – we have been able to advance in a significant manner.
People compare our rule with the Congress rule which was there for 28 years in West Bengal and where they had also the Central Government with them. People also compare this period in which we are in the government to Congress governments which exist elsewhere in India – where riots take place, where there is communal disharmony, where in the economic, social and political fields, there is instability, and here there has been stability. So all that, they see.
As for the negative features – our disabilities are there and we are unable to implement some of the programmes – they know it is not because of us, or the efforts which we have been making. It is because of the Central government’s wrong policies towards the Left Front government here – they know that. For instance, in the field of industries. It all depends on the Central government. Small-scale industries, cottage industries, we have the largest number (of these) in India. But the middle kind of industries and bigger industries, modern industries which need licences from Delhi, there we have not been able to advance very much – except during the last one-and-a-half years, after this petrochemical complex, the permission for which we received from the Central government. Now things have opened up as far as the industrial field is concerned.
The Left Front seems to have entrenched itself exceedingly well in the rural areas of West Bengal. Could you elaborate on how this has been possible and what are the policies which have made it possible?
That is exactly what I am saying. When we talk about the ‘limited powers’... you see, under the Constitution, we have more powers in the field of agriculture and that we have utilised fully. Land reform, the kind of land reforms we have had here, was never there in West Bengal before; it was there nowhere else in India.
Similarly, the panchayat system, Panchayati Raj (as it is being called), which has decentralised powers in this period – it is seen nowhere else in India. We have elections for local government in the same way as we have for the Assembly and the Lok Sabha. We have a law under which we have to have elections at particular periods. There is no such law anywhere else in India. So this democracy, this aspect of democracy, also people has understood.
And people mean not only the people in the villages; in the towns too, they have understood it. They see we have municipal elections. Whether we lose or win – we have been winning most of the seats, most of the municipalities – we don’t bother about that; we have to have elections. This is a very big thing which you don’t see anywhere else in India. They go on postponing these elections! And by getting the people’s support... you see, what we say is that we don’t rule just from here, from Writer’s Building, our headquarters, but we take the support of the people, through their mass organisations, of the workers, peasants, the middle classes, the students, the youth, women and so on.... then chambers of commerce which are there, we also talk to them. We are in contact with them. This is the way.
There is a feeling here... some people, the bigger industrialists and some others were a little suspicious of us, naturally (laughs). But now, they have seen through their experience that – of course, we are with the workers; of course, we believe in class struggle; we believe that workers, if they have no alternative, they have to go on strike. That is quite legal and under the Constitution.
But they also know that we are for the advance of our economy; and in that we recognise that the private sector has a big role to play, a significant role to play; and they have seen through their experience that nowhere else does such peace exist in India as here in West Bengal. So now they are somewhat reconciled to the fact that they can carry on their operations here, together with us. We have the joint sector – even with the largest companies. That they have seen.
The panchayat system, its impact on both the formulation and implementation of poverty alleviation programmes in rural areas, like the Food for Work Programme and the IRDP. What has been the experience of the Left Front government with regard to this?
Our experience, I can tell you, has been very good. Because poverty alleviation programmes are there; the Central government has some programmes... and we implement some of them. But actually in the field, we have been able to do something. That anybody who goes to the countryside will see... that we have distributed land, we have given them quality seeds, we have linked them up with the banks. Then, in the formulation of our Plan, we go right down, you see.
In the districts also we tell them, “You go right down and get the people’s opinion as to what exactly has to be done in various fields, various sectors, our departments and so on.” All these together then come to us. We place it before the Planning Board and it goes through that. So in the formulation of the Plan, it is there; and in implementation, 50 per cent of the budget of the government is spent through the panchayats and the other local bodies, the municipalities. This has never been there before.
And in our legislation, we say – I don’t say it is being done in that way 100 per cent – but the legislation is that whatever you do in the panchayats, you must put up in the office – you see, outside – for people to come and see. You see if they have any complaints to make; where there has been discrimination and things like that. They may have some complaint. So we should listen to them and every month have a meeting with the people of the village, and so on.
Would it be correct to say that the employment situation for the rural poor, through land reforms and panchayats, has improved considerably during Left Front rule?
You are right. In the panchayats, this has happened. We have created mandays, millions of mandays through this. Outside the agricultural operations, throughout the year almost, they get some work or other – that we have been able to do. But that, unfortunately, we have not been able to do in the towns and the cities. Only a year-and-a-half back, we took a decision: we pay some unemployment assistance – that is nothing, only Rs.50 a month – to those whose names are in the employment register. But that doesn’t really solve the problem. So to alleviate the sufferings of these people – the unemployed boys and girls – the self-employment scheme was evolved. There we have an agreement with the banks where they give loans to the extent of 75 per cent; and we make up the 25 per cent. Ours is not a loan, but a subsidy.
This has worked very well. I wish we had taken this up earlier; because only last year, the year we started this, we gave jobs to about half a million boys and girls; and now our target is to give about 8 lakh jobs every year in the self-employment schemes. This is for alleviating the unemployment problem; it is a major step we have taken. But through our experience, this has to be extended.
You made the point that industrialists who were initially suspicious realised that even as you are for workers’ rights and the class struggle, you are also for the advance of the economy. Now, in that context, how do you see the role of the organised working class movement in a State like West Bengal where the Left Front government is in office?
Well, the working class is divided, but the vast majority supports us. The CITU is the organisation of the working class which supports us. But we make it a point – when there are disputes with the management and so on – to call everybody, whether recognised or not recognised. If they can’t settle among themselves – that is, the workers and the management – then they come to the Labour Department. There is a lot of work to do in that respect; and they have done it quite successfully. Without strikes, we have had very good agreements with various industries – like tea, like engineering and so on. This has happened. But, of course, it doesn’t mean that strikes have stopped. In individual cases, strikes are there. And we have told the managements and the owners that if no settlement is arrived at and we think that the workers’ cause is just, and they go on strike, we support them. Very clearly, we tell them!
In fact, you have earlier referred to the attitude of industrialists which is now changing, and you see an opening up in the last year-and-a-half or so. How do you see the industrial situation now? And where do you go from here?
I think that has opened up. You see, last year… I told you (in an earlier interview) how we got this sanction – for which I had been waiting 12 years – on this petrochemical complex in Haldia; that has now come. We are tying up the finances and so on; a little bit is left over, that we’ll do just now. And then this polyester fibre plant, another Rs.500 crore project. These are big projects with big companies – one is with the Tatas; the other is with the Ambani group. So like that, some others from outside West Bengal are also coming. Food processing is a new thing that is happening in West Bengal; and we have got some people from outside who are taking an interest in this. The Tatas are also interested in agro-industries and things like that, which they will take up (they said) after this election were over. Just before the election we had a discussion like that. That will open up huge possibilities in West Bengal in agriculture, in biotechnology and all that in which they have an interest.
The Salt Lake Electronic complex. . .
That is electronics; we have done it ourselves. The Central government has not helped us a bit. Big companies are there – like Philips – and other smaller companies are there; one or two small Japanese companies are there; we have also done it ourselves a bit. But even now, we want investment by the Central government in one sector or other of the electronics industry. So there we have joint sector; also the private sector; and our own.
The thing that has not come out very much, but stands out from what we have learnt in the last couple of days, is the achievement of West Bengal in small industries. You referred to the fact that in cottage and small industries, West Bengal is No. 1 in the country. What has been the specific policy on this?
Yes, we have the largest number in the country. Because for that, we don’t need licences from the Centre and things like that! Of course, for raw materials, bank assistance and all that, we need that help; but anyway, we are carrying on. And that is labour-oriented, so it is very useful to us. Particularly our cottage industry, that was absolutely down and out. You know, Tamil Nadu had done very well in cottage industry earlier – I don’t know what is happening there now – it had done very well. We were nowhere near that, you see. But now for the last few years, there has been tremendous advance in this area in West Bengal. Now we have got shops in various States of India, where we sell these things which are produced by our people in the cottage industry.
So both rural and urban small industry has developed quite a bit…
Urban also… I was talking about cottage industries in the villages… and in urban areas also it is there. But they need a little modernisation: that we have to do this time. And we need to link up these small-scale industries with the modernisation programme of the government of India, for instance in steel – they are going to spend ultimately about Rs.5,000 crore to Rs.6,000 crore. This is a big opportunity for small-scale industries to be established in those areas where this is being done.
Rajiv Gandhi earlier talked about Rs.1,001 crore for West Bengal – after a detailed discussion in Calcutta. You told us about it in an earlier interview.
That is an old thing, you see... we didn’t get more than Rs.200 crore!
Will you be talking to the new Congress (I) minority government about it?
Those things, you see, they were so vague (laughs), many of them didn’t mean anything anyway! Now we have to take up anew our economic programme... Today Pranab Mukherjee rang me up; he is now in the Planning Commission, he has taken over. So he is coming here to meet me. Already, I had met the Prime Minister. I had told him: “Please don’t take us for granted. You are a minority government, but we just don’t want to take advantage of that. It all depends on you. Now, what is the policy you are going to pursue? For that, discussions are necessary.”
Of course, he agreed; but I don’t see that anything has happened yet. Except that Pranab rang me up today... and I said, “You come, come along... we have our ideas, we will discuss...” So this is necessary – and particularly, proper Centre-State relations. This has been very, very bad: it is all centralisation, we have no decentralisation. The Sarkaria Commission Report has not been given effect to. Even about the little things in the financial field which should have been given effect to, nothing done!
Could you give us an idea of your philosophy of, your outlook on, Centre-State relations? We know you have spoken about this subject in Madras and elsewhere, but could you sum it up for us?
I have said already that in a vast country like India, this won’t do. We put out a paper in 1978 – we came into the government in 1977, and in 1978 we prepared a paper. It was discussed all over India. Indira Gandhi was alive then. After the 1980 election which returned her to power, she set up this Sarkaria Commission. That was a good thing. It took a long time, because the Congress was not interested! They didn’t give any memorandum on anything. All States, I think, gave some memorandum or other. And I think everybody was agreed that such centralisation cannot unite India. Their idea is exactly the opposite: they think by police powers, by all kinds of black laws and all that and centralisation of powers, they can keep India strong and united! And that you will get a strong Central government! We think, on the contrary, that it will be a weak government.Because you need the cooperation of the people and that you can get by placing your trust in the people – not by insulting the people and creating all kinds of confusion among them in regard to the Centre. This has been our idea. So you need strong States in order to have a strong Centre. That is our view.
By our count, the Centre has used this knife of President’s rule – Article 356, or its counterpart for Union Territories – 96 times to date.
In the Madras seminar (on Democracy, Federalism and Article 356, held on March 31, 1991), we heard that it was over 90 times from (S.) Guhan, who produced that very good paper. And we were the first victims – that is, Kerala, our Communist government there.
What is the agenda of the Left Front government now? You have indicated already some directions with respect to industry... where do you go further in the rural areas, for example, now?
In rural areas, we still have to complete that process. We have about 1.5 lakh acres of land, you see, which we have not been able to distribute – because the court cases are there. Now we have to pay some attention to that; get them released from court. With us also, we have got about 70,000 acres still left. That is not very good land, we are told. So we have to see what exactly is to be done there with that land: give it to the panchayats, or have cooperatives, or what? That we have to see. Or have them for fodder production... or raw materials for paper mills and so on. People are approaching us, you see... and that can be done. We are still to do that, but we have to continue the work there – what we have been doing in regard to the panchayats.
I told you about the planning and the expenditure: how we do it through the panchayats. Some weaknesses are still there, which one has to get rid of; this is what we have learnt. That work remains to be done in rural development. New cropping patterns and all that, we have to discuss; we’ll do it. These are just examples I am giving you... about what remains to be done.
In health and education... you have taken up literacy in a big way now.
Yes, literacy in a big way. After we came in, after five or six years, we made education free up to Class 12, that is, up to the higher secondary stage... and then, we are giving books free up to Class 5. All those things have been there. But in the meanwhile we fell back a bit on that literacy campaign. Now for the last one year we have taken it up in right earnest – through the various districts. And they are coming up very well. We have never had any such thing anywhere else in India. In Kerala, it is different. Kerala already was quite high as far as literacy was concerned...
And there is the advantage there of a single language...
But here, for instance in one district, Midnapore – which is our biggest district – they found out about a year back that...
Asim Dasgupta: ... 19 lakhs were illiterate.
Jyoti Basu: So they had a timetable: that within that period, they must complete the process of educating them, making them literate. I believe they have not reached the target: but at least 80 per cent of the target they have reached. Similarly, just now I find a representative of the Government of India came to Burdwan – another big district of West Bengal – and said, Burdwan has done quite well; it is comparable...
Asim Dasgupta: It is fully literate now.
Jyoti Basu: So, like that we are trying... Other districts also have taken up this programme. This will be one of our big priorities – particularly because we started rather late, and we don’t want to lose more time.
How about compulsory primary education? Up to Class 5? We have spoken about this to you earlier, Mr Chief Minister...
That is there; that has been our idea since Independence. But to make it compulsory is very, very difficult in the economic situation which we are facing – in the economic and social situation we are facing. But I think we have to discuss it. Because we have set up a commission now – with our former Finance Minister, Dr Ashok Mitra, and others – to go into this question of education, the quality of education and what exactly must be done to improve the situation there.
And work out the financial implications?
No, no. The quality of education means: Are the teachers really teaching in the proper way? On the question of the syllabus, do we need any change? Some people are saying there is too much load on the children and that kind of thing. So the terms of reference are there... they will go into that kind of problem. The Commission has been set up; it will start its work. Similarly, for university education and all that, this quality is very important. We have to look into it.
In the context of the outstanding performance of the Left Front, we also have this question of what has been the role of the Congress and the BJP [Bharatiya Janata Party] in West Bengal? Could we have your assessment of how they have fared this time and also of the process...
The BJP was practically not there in West Bengal so much. Earlier, they did not put up very many candidates... they have no representation. They have a representation of two out of 140 in the Calcutta Corporation; twice there were elections – they retained those two seats. But in most of the municipalities, they have not had any representation earlier. But in these Lok Sabha and Assembly elections, they made a tremendous effort. And I think they have got, as far as I know, from the figures I have got up to now, about 11 per cent – just over 11 per cent – of the votes (in the Lok Sabha contest). They put up candidates almost everywhere. And huge amounts they spent. This is rather dangerous for us; so we have to analyse all this. We are reviewing the entire situation.
Our calculations are, up to now, that they have cut into both the Congress votes and the Left Front votes. We are studying this in detail in the districts. From some of the booths for which we have got figures, we see how this has happened: maybe last time they got one vote; this time they have got 130 votes; we may have got 800 votes, that is a different matter, but they got 130 votes. Yesterday, somebody was telling me this. We are trying, as soon as possible, to review all this. We have told our district committees (of the CPI-M) to send us their reports, their evaluations. Then centrally, we shall see what exactly has to be done. Many people have been misled... and some communal feeling is always there. They have spread communal poison, a great deal of it.
The Congress, unfortunately, never talks against the BJP – never! You see, during the whole of this election, they cannot show that even one leader ever talked against the BJP! Except when Rajiv came here, he spoke one or two lines against the BJP. But these Congress leaders here in West Bengal, they never did. This is the big danger. Because to stop communalism and this kind of division in the country on the basis of religion, according to our view, all should unite, whoever is in the government or not in the government; the Opposition also you have to take into confidence...
All secular forces have to unite...
But this is a danger here... because I don’t see these Congressmen really conscious of all this!
Siddhartha Shankar Ray, who had a rather notorious role in the early 1970s – it was widely written upon in the press – then during the Emergency, and subsequently as Governor in Punjab, was brought in with the specific assignment of making the Congress(I) do very well. What happened?
To unite the party and to repeat what they did in 1972 (the rigging of the State Assembly elections)? But in 1972, they were in the government! Now we are in the government. And elections… they have always been free and fair in West Bengal, since 1977. You see, there have been no complaints. In fact, we got a certificate from the previous Chief Election Commissioner (Peri Sastry)… not from this Commissioner (T.N. Seshan). But this Chief Election Commissioner has also said… he has done very wrong things… but he has also said that here peaceful elections were held.
And Siddhartha Ray, right from the time he came here – he was sent from Delhi after 14 years’ absence – started saying that there would be violence and all kinds of things… the rigging of elections, that kind of thing, he went on saying. And he was helped also, unfortunately, by the Chief Election Commissioner! But nothing of the kind happened here.
As for his party… of course that formal unity was there. That has always been there; even without him it was there. But I don’t think that all of them were that happy that he came… you see, after so many years. His role has never been good, you see… and we are a little apprehensive of what it is going to be now. Yesterday, they began by boycotting the swearing-in ceremony of the Ministers.
Judging by the events of the last few days, it seems that the Opposition in this State has not changed its attitude to the Left Front government at all. Even today we saw in the press its statements alleging that the CPI(M) has…
Such statements go on… there has been some violence from our side also, but they have done the most violence – that is irrefutable. I said this in the public meeting yesterday. We can give figures on how many of our people have been killed.
From there standpoint, you would appear unsinkable… your Left Front government.
They are trying to do something about it but nothing has happened. But this time, of course, they said – publicly they said they would get a majority and form a government – but in the discussion among themselves they said, it seems, they would get about 111 seats or something – I don’t know how! But anyhow… we thought that they would get about the same number they got last time, but they got three more (in the Assembly).
Could we ask you some questions on the national scene? The Prime Minister has stated, in cricketing parlance, that the Congress(I) is like a famous batsman who fell just one short of a century but that didn’t mean that he did not score well. How do you view the performance of the Congress (I) in the tenth general election?
The Congress(I) ultimately did a little better than at least some of us thought. But that is because it is very clear that Rajiv’s assassination helped the party in the second stage… wherever elections were being held. Except in U.P. and Bihar, I think they were helped. The figures are clear… In Andhra Pradesh and in some other places. But here, fortunately, our election was over by then. So that helped them. Otherwise, I don’t they would have got these figures which are there with them now.
They have 223 and with allies they are some 15 short of a majority in the Lok Sabha.
I don’t think they would have come up so much.
One estimate is that they might have got 50 to 55 seats less than what they actually got if Rajiv Gandhi had not been assassinated and there had been no sympathy effect.
So this is the position. As far as we are concerned, we have made our position clear. We are in the Opposition. A minority party can form a government, but they have to take the Opposition into confidence, and listen to us, talk to us. They cannot take us for granted…
This is the attitude of the CPI(M) to the new government in New Delhi…
We said that if a confidence vote comes, we won’t vote for them, but we may abstain. But also, we cannot abstain all the time! If, for instance… the Budget session is there; on economic policy, so on and so forth; on other policies… if they behave in the same way, then they will not be in a position to carry on for five years – we are very sure!
We were going to ask you this question: how long would you give the Congress(I) government? Any decent length of time?
It all depends on them.
What do you see as the agenda before the nation now? In terms of the polity and also the economy?
The agenda, you see… people have been talking about stability. Where is the stability? Stability – even now it is not there. Then the agenda is – we are a bankrupt nation; there are these economic policies…. Now they have promised so many things… one crore jobs a year.... Then in 100 days they would bring down the prices (of essential commodities)! It is all absurd; you see they knew they were absurd. This is the trouble with the Congress. They try to mislead the people – by saying things which they can never do. We never do that. What we can do, we tell the people we shall do. But they you see… this has been going on for 40 years!
The new Finance Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh, is quoted in the press as saying that those who wrote the manifestos were not aware of the Finance Minister’s situation.
They were very much aware! Their culture is to mislead the people. They are not serious at all about the people.
The Union Finance Minister has also said that we have no alternative but to go for the IMF loan… and he has said why should economists scare people about the multinationals… they give us technology, they are good and so on.
That we do not know… we have some other views. But as far as this (IMF) loan is concerned, I have said already when I was in Delhi – television was asking me for my view – I said, “My view is that we have been opposing these conditionalities of the loan.” But now they should tell us – for this last thing which we want from the IMF – what are the conditionalities? How will it affect the Indian people? In which sectors do they want us to do what? It is not only a question of subsidy…. Today I find somebody has said, “They may ask you to cut down military expenditure”… some other way, I don’t know. But if the entire burden falls on the people, how can we accept this? So let there be a debate. Let them tell us what exactly are the conditionalities.
On the question of communalism, which is a grave danger, what should be the priority of the Central government? What would you expect it to do?
Well, for that we are waiting…
In U.P., the BJP has formed the government…
The BJP has captured U.P. – a very, very dangerous situation. And on that slogan they have captured power there. Now they say they are going to build the temple. So the Government of India has role to play there.
There has been a democratic demand that there must be a law freezing the status quo, as of August 15, 1947, for all religious monuments and places of worship. This is in the party manifestos excepting for the BJP.
I think we are agreeable to this except this…. As far as this Ayodhya thing is concerned, we say – either you settle it amongst yourselves, or leave it to the court.
Red Salute to the Inspiring memories of Com. Jyothi Basu
Chronology
· Born on July 8, 1914 in as Jyotirindra Basu into an upper middle-class Bengali family in Calcutta. His father, Nishikanta Basu, was a doctor from the village of Barodi in Dhaka District, East Bengal (now in Bangladesh), while his mother Hemalata Basu was a housewife.
· Educated at St. Xavier's School and College and Presidency College, Calcutta(1935). B.A Honours in English, Bar at Law from Middle Temple, London.
· Initiated to Marxism and Politics while in UK. Came in close association with Harry Pollitt, Rajani Palme Dutt,, Ben Bradley and other leaders of the Communist Party of Great Britain.
· Was a member of the India League, London, a member of the Federation of Indian Students in Great Britain, Secretary of the London Majlis.
· On return to India in 1940, became a member of the Communist Party of India. As a trade-unionist, he was an important functionary of the B.A. Railroad Workers' Union and the All India Railwaymen's Federation. He was also in the leadership of several other trade union organisations.
· Between 1952 and 1957, was Secretary of the West Bengal Provincial Committee of the Communist Party of India.
· Elected to the Bengal Legislative Assembly in 1946.
· After independence, elected to the West Bengal Legislative Assembly in 1952, 1957, 1962, 1967, 1969, 1971, 1977, 1982, 1987, 1991 and 1996.
· Was the leader of the Opposition in the West Bengal Legislative Assembly from 1957 to 1967.
· Was Deputy Chief Minister of the two United Front Governments in West Bengal in 1967 and 1969.
· Took his oath as Chief Minister of West Bengal on 21st June, 1977. Headed the Left Front government in the State for five consecutive terms.
· Relinquished the office of the Chief Minister on November 6, 2000.
· Member of the Central Committee and Special Invitee to the Polit Bureau of the CPI(M) from 19th Party Congress at Coimbatore in 2008.
· On January 1, 2010, Basu was admitted to a Calcutta hospital after feeling unwell. (2010 -01-06)[update]
· Expired on 17.01.10-Sunday at 11.47 hours at AMRI Hospital, Salt lake, Culcutta.
A positive triumphInterview with Jyoti Basu
P.V. SIVAKUMAR ,Front Line.
Seventy-six-year-old Jyoti Basu, veteran Communist Party of India (Marxist) leader, began his fourth unbeaten innings as Chief Minister on June 25, 1991 – setting something of a world record for a Communist party-led government contesting elections in a pluralistic political system. Within six months, he will be independent India’s longest-serving (without a break) Chief Minister belonging to any party.
In any objective assessment, Jyoti Basu symbolises solid political and ideological work over an extended period, fortitude and staying power and also a sharp, contemporary focus on issues that matter. He is clearly a unique kind of leader who commands enormous mass appeal and wide-ranging respect among politicians; he is equally clearly a product of his movement.
The West Bengal Chief Minister, who met the Frontline team – the two economists, Dr. K. Nagarajand Dr. Venkatesh Athreya, N. Ram and photographer K. Gajendran – in his Writers’ Building office on June 26, was an agile politician, who anticipated several of the questions. He was frank and forthright: frank in his assessment of his political opponents and forthright about the issues which matter. While referring to the Left Front’s solid accomplishments, he made it a point to speak about its shortcomings. Jyoti Basu is a man with a sense of accomplishment about him – and a man who has his future tasks clearly visualised and spelt out. Further, the Jyoti Basu we met was a relaxed, friendly, accessible Chief Minister with a sense of humour and a ready chuckle (who has read virtually every one of the published novels of P.G. Wodehouse, for example). “Photo sessions are for film stars, not for politicians,” he joked while consenting to be photographed from various angles for Frontline.
Excerpts from the interview.
The outcome of the tenth general election fought on issues of secularism, stability and just change has been somewhat mixed. However, here in West Bengal, there has been an unambiguous and resounding verdict in favour of the Left Front which has, in the process, made history by winning a fourth consecutive term. How has this come about?
This question is being asked for quite some time. My view is we have been getting in all these elections positive votes. It is not just negative; we have been getting positive votes. That is because people have understood from their experience that we are implementing seriously the programme we set out before them in our election manifesto; and that with the limited powers we have – of which also we make them conscious – we have been able to advance in a significant manner.
People compare our rule with the Congress rule which was there for 28 years in West Bengal and where they had also the Central Government with them. People also compare this period in which we are in the government to Congress governments which exist elsewhere in India – where riots take place, where there is communal disharmony, where in the economic, social and political fields, there is instability, and here there has been stability. So all that, they see.
As for the negative features – our disabilities are there and we are unable to implement some of the programmes – they know it is not because of us, or the efforts which we have been making. It is because of the Central government’s wrong policies towards the Left Front government here – they know that. For instance, in the field of industries. It all depends on the Central government. Small-scale industries, cottage industries, we have the largest number (of these) in India. But the middle kind of industries and bigger industries, modern industries which need licences from Delhi, there we have not been able to advance very much – except during the last one-and-a-half years, after this petrochemical complex, the permission for which we received from the Central government. Now things have opened up as far as the industrial field is concerned.
The Left Front seems to have entrenched itself exceedingly well in the rural areas of West Bengal. Could you elaborate on how this has been possible and what are the policies which have made it possible?
That is exactly what I am saying. When we talk about the ‘limited powers’... you see, under the Constitution, we have more powers in the field of agriculture and that we have utilised fully. Land reform, the kind of land reforms we have had here, was never there in West Bengal before; it was there nowhere else in India.
Similarly, the panchayat system, Panchayati Raj (as it is being called), which has decentralised powers in this period – it is seen nowhere else in India. We have elections for local government in the same way as we have for the Assembly and the Lok Sabha. We have a law under which we have to have elections at particular periods. There is no such law anywhere else in India. So this democracy, this aspect of democracy, also people has understood.
And people mean not only the people in the villages; in the towns too, they have understood it. They see we have municipal elections. Whether we lose or win – we have been winning most of the seats, most of the municipalities – we don’t bother about that; we have to have elections. This is a very big thing which you don’t see anywhere else in India. They go on postponing these elections! And by getting the people’s support... you see, what we say is that we don’t rule just from here, from Writer’s Building, our headquarters, but we take the support of the people, through their mass organisations, of the workers, peasants, the middle classes, the students, the youth, women and so on.... then chambers of commerce which are there, we also talk to them. We are in contact with them. This is the way.
There is a feeling here... some people, the bigger industrialists and some others were a little suspicious of us, naturally (laughs). But now, they have seen through their experience that – of course, we are with the workers; of course, we believe in class struggle; we believe that workers, if they have no alternative, they have to go on strike. That is quite legal and under the Constitution.
But they also know that we are for the advance of our economy; and in that we recognise that the private sector has a big role to play, a significant role to play; and they have seen through their experience that nowhere else does such peace exist in India as here in West Bengal. So now they are somewhat reconciled to the fact that they can carry on their operations here, together with us. We have the joint sector – even with the largest companies. That they have seen.
The panchayat system, its impact on both the formulation and implementation of poverty alleviation programmes in rural areas, like the Food for Work Programme and the IRDP. What has been the experience of the Left Front government with regard to this?
Our experience, I can tell you, has been very good. Because poverty alleviation programmes are there; the Central government has some programmes... and we implement some of them. But actually in the field, we have been able to do something. That anybody who goes to the countryside will see... that we have distributed land, we have given them quality seeds, we have linked them up with the banks. Then, in the formulation of our Plan, we go right down, you see.
In the districts also we tell them, “You go right down and get the people’s opinion as to what exactly has to be done in various fields, various sectors, our departments and so on.” All these together then come to us. We place it before the Planning Board and it goes through that. So in the formulation of the Plan, it is there; and in implementation, 50 per cent of the budget of the government is spent through the panchayats and the other local bodies, the municipalities. This has never been there before.
And in our legislation, we say – I don’t say it is being done in that way 100 per cent – but the legislation is that whatever you do in the panchayats, you must put up in the office – you see, outside – for people to come and see. You see if they have any complaints to make; where there has been discrimination and things like that. They may have some complaint. So we should listen to them and every month have a meeting with the people of the village, and so on.
Would it be correct to say that the employment situation for the rural poor, through land reforms and panchayats, has improved considerably during Left Front rule?
You are right. In the panchayats, this has happened. We have created mandays, millions of mandays through this. Outside the agricultural operations, throughout the year almost, they get some work or other – that we have been able to do. But that, unfortunately, we have not been able to do in the towns and the cities. Only a year-and-a-half back, we took a decision: we pay some unemployment assistance – that is nothing, only Rs.50 a month – to those whose names are in the employment register. But that doesn’t really solve the problem. So to alleviate the sufferings of these people – the unemployed boys and girls – the self-employment scheme was evolved. There we have an agreement with the banks where they give loans to the extent of 75 per cent; and we make up the 25 per cent. Ours is not a loan, but a subsidy.
This has worked very well. I wish we had taken this up earlier; because only last year, the year we started this, we gave jobs to about half a million boys and girls; and now our target is to give about 8 lakh jobs every year in the self-employment schemes. This is for alleviating the unemployment problem; it is a major step we have taken. But through our experience, this has to be extended.
You made the point that industrialists who were initially suspicious realised that even as you are for workers’ rights and the class struggle, you are also for the advance of the economy. Now, in that context, how do you see the role of the organised working class movement in a State like West Bengal where the Left Front government is in office?
Well, the working class is divided, but the vast majority supports us. The CITU is the organisation of the working class which supports us. But we make it a point – when there are disputes with the management and so on – to call everybody, whether recognised or not recognised. If they can’t settle among themselves – that is, the workers and the management – then they come to the Labour Department. There is a lot of work to do in that respect; and they have done it quite successfully. Without strikes, we have had very good agreements with various industries – like tea, like engineering and so on. This has happened. But, of course, it doesn’t mean that strikes have stopped. In individual cases, strikes are there. And we have told the managements and the owners that if no settlement is arrived at and we think that the workers’ cause is just, and they go on strike, we support them. Very clearly, we tell them!
In fact, you have earlier referred to the attitude of industrialists which is now changing, and you see an opening up in the last year-and-a-half or so. How do you see the industrial situation now? And where do you go from here?
I think that has opened up. You see, last year… I told you (in an earlier interview) how we got this sanction – for which I had been waiting 12 years – on this petrochemical complex in Haldia; that has now come. We are tying up the finances and so on; a little bit is left over, that we’ll do just now. And then this polyester fibre plant, another Rs.500 crore project. These are big projects with big companies – one is with the Tatas; the other is with the Ambani group. So like that, some others from outside West Bengal are also coming. Food processing is a new thing that is happening in West Bengal; and we have got some people from outside who are taking an interest in this. The Tatas are also interested in agro-industries and things like that, which they will take up (they said) after this election were over. Just before the election we had a discussion like that. That will open up huge possibilities in West Bengal in agriculture, in biotechnology and all that in which they have an interest.
The Salt Lake Electronic complex. . .
That is electronics; we have done it ourselves. The Central government has not helped us a bit. Big companies are there – like Philips – and other smaller companies are there; one or two small Japanese companies are there; we have also done it ourselves a bit. But even now, we want investment by the Central government in one sector or other of the electronics industry. So there we have joint sector; also the private sector; and our own.
The thing that has not come out very much, but stands out from what we have learnt in the last couple of days, is the achievement of West Bengal in small industries. You referred to the fact that in cottage and small industries, West Bengal is No. 1 in the country. What has been the specific policy on this?
Yes, we have the largest number in the country. Because for that, we don’t need licences from the Centre and things like that! Of course, for raw materials, bank assistance and all that, we need that help; but anyway, we are carrying on. And that is labour-oriented, so it is very useful to us. Particularly our cottage industry, that was absolutely down and out. You know, Tamil Nadu had done very well in cottage industry earlier – I don’t know what is happening there now – it had done very well. We were nowhere near that, you see. But now for the last few years, there has been tremendous advance in this area in West Bengal. Now we have got shops in various States of India, where we sell these things which are produced by our people in the cottage industry.
So both rural and urban small industry has developed quite a bit…
Urban also… I was talking about cottage industries in the villages… and in urban areas also it is there. But they need a little modernisation: that we have to do this time. And we need to link up these small-scale industries with the modernisation programme of the government of India, for instance in steel – they are going to spend ultimately about Rs.5,000 crore to Rs.6,000 crore. This is a big opportunity for small-scale industries to be established in those areas where this is being done.
Rajiv Gandhi earlier talked about Rs.1,001 crore for West Bengal – after a detailed discussion in Calcutta. You told us about it in an earlier interview.
That is an old thing, you see... we didn’t get more than Rs.200 crore!
Will you be talking to the new Congress (I) minority government about it?
Those things, you see, they were so vague (laughs), many of them didn’t mean anything anyway! Now we have to take up anew our economic programme... Today Pranab Mukherjee rang me up; he is now in the Planning Commission, he has taken over. So he is coming here to meet me. Already, I had met the Prime Minister. I had told him: “Please don’t take us for granted. You are a minority government, but we just don’t want to take advantage of that. It all depends on you. Now, what is the policy you are going to pursue? For that, discussions are necessary.”
Of course, he agreed; but I don’t see that anything has happened yet. Except that Pranab rang me up today... and I said, “You come, come along... we have our ideas, we will discuss...” So this is necessary – and particularly, proper Centre-State relations. This has been very, very bad: it is all centralisation, we have no decentralisation. The Sarkaria Commission Report has not been given effect to. Even about the little things in the financial field which should have been given effect to, nothing done!
Could you give us an idea of your philosophy of, your outlook on, Centre-State relations? We know you have spoken about this subject in Madras and elsewhere, but could you sum it up for us?
I have said already that in a vast country like India, this won’t do. We put out a paper in 1978 – we came into the government in 1977, and in 1978 we prepared a paper. It was discussed all over India. Indira Gandhi was alive then. After the 1980 election which returned her to power, she set up this Sarkaria Commission. That was a good thing. It took a long time, because the Congress was not interested! They didn’t give any memorandum on anything. All States, I think, gave some memorandum or other. And I think everybody was agreed that such centralisation cannot unite India. Their idea is exactly the opposite: they think by police powers, by all kinds of black laws and all that and centralisation of powers, they can keep India strong and united! And that you will get a strong Central government! We think, on the contrary, that it will be a weak government.Because you need the cooperation of the people and that you can get by placing your trust in the people – not by insulting the people and creating all kinds of confusion among them in regard to the Centre. This has been our idea. So you need strong States in order to have a strong Centre. That is our view.
By our count, the Centre has used this knife of President’s rule – Article 356, or its counterpart for Union Territories – 96 times to date.
In the Madras seminar (on Democracy, Federalism and Article 356, held on March 31, 1991), we heard that it was over 90 times from (S.) Guhan, who produced that very good paper. And we were the first victims – that is, Kerala, our Communist government there.
What is the agenda of the Left Front government now? You have indicated already some directions with respect to industry... where do you go further in the rural areas, for example, now?
In rural areas, we still have to complete that process. We have about 1.5 lakh acres of land, you see, which we have not been able to distribute – because the court cases are there. Now we have to pay some attention to that; get them released from court. With us also, we have got about 70,000 acres still left. That is not very good land, we are told. So we have to see what exactly is to be done there with that land: give it to the panchayats, or have cooperatives, or what? That we have to see. Or have them for fodder production... or raw materials for paper mills and so on. People are approaching us, you see... and that can be done. We are still to do that, but we have to continue the work there – what we have been doing in regard to the panchayats.
I told you about the planning and the expenditure: how we do it through the panchayats. Some weaknesses are still there, which one has to get rid of; this is what we have learnt. That work remains to be done in rural development. New cropping patterns and all that, we have to discuss; we’ll do it. These are just examples I am giving you... about what remains to be done.
In health and education... you have taken up literacy in a big way now.
Yes, literacy in a big way. After we came in, after five or six years, we made education free up to Class 12, that is, up to the higher secondary stage... and then, we are giving books free up to Class 5. All those things have been there. But in the meanwhile we fell back a bit on that literacy campaign. Now for the last one year we have taken it up in right earnest – through the various districts. And they are coming up very well. We have never had any such thing anywhere else in India. In Kerala, it is different. Kerala already was quite high as far as literacy was concerned...
And there is the advantage there of a single language...
But here, for instance in one district, Midnapore – which is our biggest district – they found out about a year back that...
Asim Dasgupta: ... 19 lakhs were illiterate.
Jyoti Basu: So they had a timetable: that within that period, they must complete the process of educating them, making them literate. I believe they have not reached the target: but at least 80 per cent of the target they have reached. Similarly, just now I find a representative of the Government of India came to Burdwan – another big district of West Bengal – and said, Burdwan has done quite well; it is comparable...
Asim Dasgupta: It is fully literate now.
Jyoti Basu: So, like that we are trying... Other districts also have taken up this programme. This will be one of our big priorities – particularly because we started rather late, and we don’t want to lose more time.
How about compulsory primary education? Up to Class 5? We have spoken about this to you earlier, Mr Chief Minister...
That is there; that has been our idea since Independence. But to make it compulsory is very, very difficult in the economic situation which we are facing – in the economic and social situation we are facing. But I think we have to discuss it. Because we have set up a commission now – with our former Finance Minister, Dr Ashok Mitra, and others – to go into this question of education, the quality of education and what exactly must be done to improve the situation there.
And work out the financial implications?
No, no. The quality of education means: Are the teachers really teaching in the proper way? On the question of the syllabus, do we need any change? Some people are saying there is too much load on the children and that kind of thing. So the terms of reference are there... they will go into that kind of problem. The Commission has been set up; it will start its work. Similarly, for university education and all that, this quality is very important. We have to look into it.
In the context of the outstanding performance of the Left Front, we also have this question of what has been the role of the Congress and the BJP [Bharatiya Janata Party] in West Bengal? Could we have your assessment of how they have fared this time and also of the process...
The BJP was practically not there in West Bengal so much. Earlier, they did not put up very many candidates... they have no representation. They have a representation of two out of 140 in the Calcutta Corporation; twice there were elections – they retained those two seats. But in most of the municipalities, they have not had any representation earlier. But in these Lok Sabha and Assembly elections, they made a tremendous effort. And I think they have got, as far as I know, from the figures I have got up to now, about 11 per cent – just over 11 per cent – of the votes (in the Lok Sabha contest). They put up candidates almost everywhere. And huge amounts they spent. This is rather dangerous for us; so we have to analyse all this. We are reviewing the entire situation.
Our calculations are, up to now, that they have cut into both the Congress votes and the Left Front votes. We are studying this in detail in the districts. From some of the booths for which we have got figures, we see how this has happened: maybe last time they got one vote; this time they have got 130 votes; we may have got 800 votes, that is a different matter, but they got 130 votes. Yesterday, somebody was telling me this. We are trying, as soon as possible, to review all this. We have told our district committees (of the CPI-M) to send us their reports, their evaluations. Then centrally, we shall see what exactly has to be done. Many people have been misled... and some communal feeling is always there. They have spread communal poison, a great deal of it.
The Congress, unfortunately, never talks against the BJP – never! You see, during the whole of this election, they cannot show that even one leader ever talked against the BJP! Except when Rajiv came here, he spoke one or two lines against the BJP. But these Congress leaders here in West Bengal, they never did. This is the big danger. Because to stop communalism and this kind of division in the country on the basis of religion, according to our view, all should unite, whoever is in the government or not in the government; the Opposition also you have to take into confidence...
All secular forces have to unite...
But this is a danger here... because I don’t see these Congressmen really conscious of all this!
Siddhartha Shankar Ray, who had a rather notorious role in the early 1970s – it was widely written upon in the press – then during the Emergency, and subsequently as Governor in Punjab, was brought in with the specific assignment of making the Congress(I) do very well. What happened?
To unite the party and to repeat what they did in 1972 (the rigging of the State Assembly elections)? But in 1972, they were in the government! Now we are in the government. And elections… they have always been free and fair in West Bengal, since 1977. You see, there have been no complaints. In fact, we got a certificate from the previous Chief Election Commissioner (Peri Sastry)… not from this Commissioner (T.N. Seshan). But this Chief Election Commissioner has also said… he has done very wrong things… but he has also said that here peaceful elections were held.
And Siddhartha Ray, right from the time he came here – he was sent from Delhi after 14 years’ absence – started saying that there would be violence and all kinds of things… the rigging of elections, that kind of thing, he went on saying. And he was helped also, unfortunately, by the Chief Election Commissioner! But nothing of the kind happened here.
As for his party… of course that formal unity was there. That has always been there; even without him it was there. But I don’t think that all of them were that happy that he came… you see, after so many years. His role has never been good, you see… and we are a little apprehensive of what it is going to be now. Yesterday, they began by boycotting the swearing-in ceremony of the Ministers.
Judging by the events of the last few days, it seems that the Opposition in this State has not changed its attitude to the Left Front government at all. Even today we saw in the press its statements alleging that the CPI(M) has…
Such statements go on… there has been some violence from our side also, but they have done the most violence – that is irrefutable. I said this in the public meeting yesterday. We can give figures on how many of our people have been killed.
From there standpoint, you would appear unsinkable… your Left Front government.
They are trying to do something about it but nothing has happened. But this time, of course, they said – publicly they said they would get a majority and form a government – but in the discussion among themselves they said, it seems, they would get about 111 seats or something – I don’t know how! But anyhow… we thought that they would get about the same number they got last time, but they got three more (in the Assembly).
Could we ask you some questions on the national scene? The Prime Minister has stated, in cricketing parlance, that the Congress(I) is like a famous batsman who fell just one short of a century but that didn’t mean that he did not score well. How do you view the performance of the Congress (I) in the tenth general election?
The Congress(I) ultimately did a little better than at least some of us thought. But that is because it is very clear that Rajiv’s assassination helped the party in the second stage… wherever elections were being held. Except in U.P. and Bihar, I think they were helped. The figures are clear… In Andhra Pradesh and in some other places. But here, fortunately, our election was over by then. So that helped them. Otherwise, I don’t they would have got these figures which are there with them now.
They have 223 and with allies they are some 15 short of a majority in the Lok Sabha.
I don’t think they would have come up so much.
One estimate is that they might have got 50 to 55 seats less than what they actually got if Rajiv Gandhi had not been assassinated and there had been no sympathy effect.
So this is the position. As far as we are concerned, we have made our position clear. We are in the Opposition. A minority party can form a government, but they have to take the Opposition into confidence, and listen to us, talk to us. They cannot take us for granted…
This is the attitude of the CPI(M) to the new government in New Delhi…
We said that if a confidence vote comes, we won’t vote for them, but we may abstain. But also, we cannot abstain all the time! If, for instance… the Budget session is there; on economic policy, so on and so forth; on other policies… if they behave in the same way, then they will not be in a position to carry on for five years – we are very sure!
We were going to ask you this question: how long would you give the Congress(I) government? Any decent length of time?
It all depends on them.
What do you see as the agenda before the nation now? In terms of the polity and also the economy?
The agenda, you see… people have been talking about stability. Where is the stability? Stability – even now it is not there. Then the agenda is – we are a bankrupt nation; there are these economic policies…. Now they have promised so many things… one crore jobs a year.... Then in 100 days they would bring down the prices (of essential commodities)! It is all absurd; you see they knew they were absurd. This is the trouble with the Congress. They try to mislead the people – by saying things which they can never do. We never do that. What we can do, we tell the people we shall do. But they you see… this has been going on for 40 years!
The new Finance Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh, is quoted in the press as saying that those who wrote the manifestos were not aware of the Finance Minister’s situation.
They were very much aware! Their culture is to mislead the people. They are not serious at all about the people.
The Union Finance Minister has also said that we have no alternative but to go for the IMF loan… and he has said why should economists scare people about the multinationals… they give us technology, they are good and so on.
That we do not know… we have some other views. But as far as this (IMF) loan is concerned, I have said already when I was in Delhi – television was asking me for my view – I said, “My view is that we have been opposing these conditionalities of the loan.” But now they should tell us – for this last thing which we want from the IMF – what are the conditionalities? How will it affect the Indian people? In which sectors do they want us to do what? It is not only a question of subsidy…. Today I find somebody has said, “They may ask you to cut down military expenditure”… some other way, I don’t know. But if the entire burden falls on the people, how can we accept this? So let there be a debate. Let them tell us what exactly are the conditionalities.
On the question of communalism, which is a grave danger, what should be the priority of the Central government? What would you expect it to do?
Well, for that we are waiting…
In U.P., the BJP has formed the government…
The BJP has captured U.P. – a very, very dangerous situation. And on that slogan they have captured power there. Now they say they are going to build the temple. So the Government of India has role to play there.
There has been a democratic demand that there must be a law freezing the status quo, as of August 15, 1947, for all religious monuments and places of worship. This is in the party manifestos excepting for the BJP.
I think we are agreeable to this except this…. As far as this Ayodhya thing is concerned, we say – either you settle it amongst yourselves, or leave it to the court.
Red Salute to the Inspiring memories of Com. Jyothi Basu
No comments:
Post a Comment